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Author Topic: Mycobag noob questions help appreciated =]  (Read 40943 times)

2friedfish

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Mycobag noob questions help appreciated =]
« on: November 15, 2012, 01:09:54 AM »

Hey guys! im new to this forum thing and just now figured out how to do this, but anywho i have some "noob" questions i cant seem to find answers for, i just wanna make sure. Any help would be GREATLY appreciated. Anywho this is second attempt at growing mushrooms,  first time i tried BRF cakes with ecuador strain, 2 good jars outa 6 1/2 pint jars, i put them into my terrarium and keept temp. humitity, and light up but nothing for like 2 or 3 weeks. this time around i have a BRF mycobag i ordered from Earthstounge, i steralized and innoculated 2 or 3 weeks ago and all seems to be going good so far, i just have a few questions about what to do next...

1. can i spawn the mushrooms directly in the bag itself?

2. should i keep it sealed untill the first flush? or should i take it out and dunk it?

3. whats a casing layer exactly? or what can i use for a casing layer for my bags?

any kind of help would be awesome,
thanks guys ;]
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darksyde

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Re: Mycobag noob questions help appreciated =]
« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2012, 08:32:59 PM »

Hi and welcome

Yes you can grow mushrooms directly in the bag itself, or you can spawn a fully colonized bag to a bulk sub such as poo or worm castings.

If you choose to grow in the bag, there is no need to dunk it.  A sealed bag with such a small filter patch is going to retain most of its moisture. 

A casing layer is a non nutritional layer of soil/peat/coir and vermiculite, that acts as a reservoir to provide the moisture required for fruiting.  Ive never heard of casing in a myco bag.  Its commonly used for outdoor beds, trays in terrarium setups, or in monotubs.
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2friedfish

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Re: Mycobag noob questions help appreciated =]
« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2012, 09:09:38 PM »

Awesome! thanks for the advice dude, if you dont mind tho i have a couple more questions...

if i do the bulk substrate do i just wait till the bags are colonized and put them in a tub with the dung casing covering it? or wich way would be easier/more productive/faster? Because i was thinking of colonizing like 1 or 2 bags and put them in like a plastic bin or foil tub thing under the casing layer... thats what a mono tub is right?

so if i just put the bag in the light it will start to pin? 

does it mater if i break up the myceliem in the bag? ( cause i flated it to colonize faster)



thanks for the help dude, its nice to have someone respond so fast
sorry about so many questions... just like to be sure..
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darksyde

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Re: Mycobag noob questions help appreciated =]
« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2012, 03:12:29 PM »

Bulk tubs are the way to go in my opinion.  That being said, they require quite a few steps to complete the process correctly and dont always equate to great success when started from a multi-spore source (print or syringe) 

For a monotub, you would take a fully colonized bag and mix it up with pasteurized equine dung, then allow the myc to completely colonize the dung before introducing the tub to light.

A monotub is usually a plastic storage bin thats been lined with a trash bag, has a few vent holes added for air exchange, that you can set near a window for indirect sunlight.

A foil tray is usually crumbled & cased grains/brf, placed in a terrarium for humidity control.

If the bag is fully colonized, you can set it out to get indirect sunlight, or place it under a fluorescent grow light to initiate pinning.. 

If you broke up the myc, it will repair itself as it colonizes..  Just wait til its solid white before you try to fruiting.
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2friedfish

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Re: Mycobag noob questions help appreciated =]
« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2012, 07:57:27 PM »

like what kinda steps? isnt a monotub just like a mini bulk grow??
so thats it? just get 1 or 2 bags and mix it in with the compost in a bin? seems simple enough,
what about temp and humitity? or spraying etc...

what do you mean about the foil tray thing..? sorry im just a lil lost about that
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darksyde

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Re: Mycobag noob questions help appreciated =]
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2012, 02:34:45 PM »

First you would need to find leached dung..  Anything thats been sitting out long enough to be repeatedly rinsed by rain and completely dried out.  Fresh is way too acidic and would need to be leached and possibly have lime added to adjust the ph.

If the dung is dried, it needs to be soaked for 24 hours or so to hatch endospores.  I load up pillow cases and soak em in large stock pots, preferably out in a garage or shed because it will smell pretty rank!

After soaking, I hang the pillow case up for a few hours to drain, and replace the water in the stock pot with fresh.  I put a brick in the bottom of the pot to keep the pillow case off the heat, and another brick on top to keep the dung completely submerged.  The pot goes on the stove for pasteurization.. 165-179 degrees F.. Once the temp is in that range, I let it go for 90-120 minutes depending on how big the load is. I use a candy thermometer to track the temps.

When its done I hang the case again and let it drain for 24-36 hours.  It needs to be moist, but you dont want it saturated to the point you can squeeze water out.  Now you're ready to add in your colonized sub.  Take every precaution you can to make the workspace contam free.. All that moist poo is up for grabs until the myc takes it over. 

With the bulk tubs, evaporation of the moisture in the poo provides all the humidity you need.  As long as your ambient air temp in your house is between 69-74 degrees, you are right in the sweet spot..

Foil trays are just a cheap container to use for casings in humidified terrarium setups.

 
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2friedfish

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Re: Mycobag noob questions help appreciated =]
« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2012, 04:38:08 PM »

ohh ok well that doesnt sound that bad, almost sounds pretty simple. so you dont have to spray or fan it out daily?

so does it matter what kind of dung to get? or can i just go to wal mart or a garden store and just get any bag of dried dung?

does any pot work just as long its submerged fully when your pasturizing it?

one more question then i think i have everything i need haha

how long does it usually take before pinning starts?
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darksyde

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Re: Mycobag noob questions help appreciated =]
« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2012, 06:51:18 PM »

No, you dont need to fan a monotub.  Misting isnt necessary unless you case the tub.  Casing isnt necessary if you're growing isolate or clones..

Study:  http://www.shroomery.org/10677/Monotub

I differ from this tek with my holes.  I drill an  1/8th inch hole on each corner of the tub, right above the trash bag liner I use..  Just those 4 holes provide enough FAE to grow healthy fruits..

Horse or donkey dung is preferable. You would be better off going to a farm and asking to fill up a feed bag on your own. Just tell em you need it for fertilizing ground where you want to plant a garden.   Buying poo from a store would get pretty expensive.

As I said, a large stock pot is needed to hold enough poo to consider it a bulk grow.  $15- $20 at walmart will get you a good size pot.

Times will vary by strain. It also depends on how big your bulk tub is.  A small tub can colonize in 3-4 days and a huge tub could take a week or more.. After everything is fully colonized and introduced to light, its anywhere from 5-17 days for pins to form. 
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2friedfish

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Re: Mycobag noob questions help appreciated =]
« Reply #8 on: November 22, 2012, 04:04:21 PM »

is it normal for the bag to look like it has silvery lookin flakes all over it? i mean the mycellium is all over in the substrate but its not like super white its just kinda all over but i can still see brown pretty good through out the bag. im just a lil concerned..
cause i broke it up the first time cause i thought it was done but it wasnt so i let it wait some more and i broke it up a second time and it still looks about the same,

like its not totally and completly white but it is white and kinda like a brownish silvery flaky stuff all over, is that the vermiculite in it or what? im sure its just the BRF thats making it look kinda darker than normal but idk,
 i broke it up so i could fit the substrate in the bottom of the myco bag so the mushrooms could grow upwards ya know, but it just looks funky to me.

is that normal? ill try to post a pic of it a lil later tonight so you can check it out and see what you think... am i doing something wrong??
« Last Edit: November 22, 2012, 04:27:43 PM by 2friedfish »
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darksyde

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Re: Mycobag noob questions help appreciated =]
« Reply #9 on: November 22, 2012, 08:43:45 PM »

A picture would be great..  Hard to say based on your description..  Verm does give off a glittery reflection so that could have been initially what you saw, but the myc should have engulfed most of that by now. 
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2friedfish

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Re: Mycobag noob questions help appreciated =]
« Reply #10 on: December 15, 2012, 02:28:27 AM »

I guess it had to rebuild itself or something but it was all good after awhile, I spawned the bag to a monotub using steer manure and straw pasturizrd in a pillowcase, its been sitting for a week or so and I'm starting to see some kind of growth in there but idk if its normal, it looks fuzzy like lil white fuzzy spots on top in really small patches in the corners of the bin, is that normal?

sorry couldn't get pictures up couldn't figure it out,
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darksyde

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Re: Mycobag noob questions help appreciated =]
« Reply #11 on: December 15, 2012, 11:36:52 AM »

The spots are normal, but a full week should have the tub fully colonized or really close..
How long did you let the pillow case drain after pasteurization? Too much moisture can slow growth..
How did you make your tub?  Did you mix everything together or try to layer it?  I always dump my poo in then crumble all my colonized grains on top and mix thoroughly with latex gloves on..

Go to www.photobucket.com and create an account.  Upload your pictures in there.  Copy the "image code" under the photo you want to share here, then right click and paste into your message..
 
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2friedfish

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Re: Mycobag noob questions help appreciated =]
« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2012, 01:50:57 AM »

I cooked it at 170 180 deegrees for an hour or so and i let it drain and cool down for 2 or 3 hours
, i dumped it into my tub with the crumbled up substrate, and mixed up together very well with steralized latex gloves, and after I put a small layer of manure on top to kind of act like a casing layer,
I cut 4 larger holes in the bottom, in the corners and 2 up top on the ended for air exchange, as of right now all holes are covered with tape to keep humitity inside while it colonizes,
  Well it was more manure and straw than colonized substrate, I only used one bag to spawn to the bulk, is that ehy its taking so long?

 but some small spots in The corners of the tub are looking good and white but some spots in the middle look fuzzy like hair or something. Uh can't really tell what colors they are cause I've been keeping it in the dark and just checking on it with a flashlight, but it almost looks greyish like a darker color. Is that normal??

Yea I'll be sure to do that , my iPod is usually how I upload pics and stuff but my charger for it has been all Fed up so I don't really have a way to shoe you, I've been meaning to get some pics uploaded for a while  now
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darksyde

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Re: Mycobag noob questions help appreciated =]
« Reply #13 on: December 19, 2012, 09:27:46 AM »

Quote
I cooked it at 170 180 deegrees for an hour or so and i let it drain and cool down for 2 or 3 hours

I pasteurize for 90 - 120 minutes depending on how much poo is in there..  It needs to reach that temp at the core to ensure all contams will be eliminated.  I pull the case and hang it up immediately to start draining, and let it drain for 24 - 60 hours.. Poo stays really moist so large cases full will take quite a while to dry out enough.  2 or 3 hours is gonna have way too much moisture still in there..

Quote
i dumped it into my tub with the crumbled up substrate, and mixed up together very well with steralized latex gloves, and after I put a small layer of manure on top to kind of act like a casing layer


Putting a layer of poo on top isnt going to act as a casing layer.. Its gonna be colonized & consumed with the rest of the sub..  Casing layers are non-nutritive. They cannot be consumed.  Myc will just grow through the casing layer.  They act as a reservoir to supply moisture  during the fruiting stage. 

Quote
I cut 4 larger holes in the bottom, in the corners and 2 up top on the ended for air exchange

Large holes arent necessary, but since you've already gone that way, you will definitely need to fill those holes with polyfill.  That will slow the rate of moisture/humidity loss out of your tub, and act as a barrier against potential incoming contams.

Quote
I only used one bag to spawn to the bulk, is that ehy its taking so long?

I would guess the excess moisture from not draining long enough is more the culprit than anything.. I didnt see how much colonized sub you started with or how much bulk you spawned to, but if the temp and moisture are right and its contam free, even a small amount of colonized grains should have had it finished by now.

As for the fuzzy hair-like strands, if they are indeed a grayish color, would lead me to believe you have cobweb mold in your tub.. I would need to see pics to be sure, but off-white to grayish fuzz is usually cobweb.  It can sometimes be eliminated by misting with peroxide. 

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2friedfish

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Re: Mycobag noob questions help appreciated =]
« Reply #14 on: December 28, 2012, 03:43:43 PM »

Yea I think you were right about the humidity problem... I made another batch and mixed with my last mycobag, that one bag made 2 smaller aluminum trays and a medium sized one,
this time I pasurized it like you said and I hung it up and let it drain for a day 1\2 close to 2 days and it wasn't really dripping anymore so I went ahead and mixed it,

 I did 2 of them with layers so its poo substrate layer in the middle and then a layer of poo on top, and the other I just mixed it around all over,

Do you think it would matter if it froze? Cuz I hung it in my garage to drain out and it froze over night, so I put it inside to finish draining and thawing it out 

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H. Hayes

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Re: Mycobag noob questions help appreciated =]
« Reply #15 on: June 12, 2013, 01:23:15 PM »

I cooked it at 170 180 deegrees for an hour or so and i let it drain and cool down for 2 or 3 hours
, i dumped it into my tub with the crumbled up substrate, and mixed up together very well with steralized latex gloves, and after I put a small layer of manure on top to kind of act like a casing layer,
I cut 4 larger holes in the bottom, in the corners and 2 up top on the ended for air exchange, as of right now all holes are covered with tape to keep humitity inside while it colonizes,
  Well it was more manure and straw than colonized substrate, I only used one bag to spawn to the bulk, is that ehy its taking so long?

 but some small spots in The corners of the tub are looking good and white but some spots in the middle look fuzzy like hair or something. Uh can't really tell what colors they are cause I've been keeping it in the dark and just checking on it with a CHEAP LED flashlight, but it almost looks greyish like a darker color. Is that normal??

Yea I'll be sure to do that , my iPod is usually how I upload pics and stuff but my charger for it has been all Fed up so I don't really have a way to shoe you, I've been meaning to get some pics uploaded for a while  now

It seems you have done good work for this one. I am not sure how this is going to be.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2013, 07:31:42 PM by H. Hayes »
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psilocybin warrior

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Re: Mycobag noob questions help appreciated =]
« Reply #16 on: June 30, 2013, 01:28:37 AM »

That "hairy" "greyish" dark color in the center, is cobweb mold. It's always good to remove the section and lightly mist with a h202 solution, it sounds like you could use a some more airflow.
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