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Mushroom cultivation => PF - Tek => Topic started by: bigfatmouthj on December 06, 2009, 05:45:15 PM

Title: new fruits looks a bit small?
Post by: bigfatmouthj on December 06, 2009, 05:45:15 PM
so my new fruits looks a bit small, the veils seem to be breaking a bit too early. what could help yeild bigger fruits for future grows?

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Title: Re: new fruits looks a bit small?
Post by: psilocybin warrior on December 06, 2009, 06:33:29 PM
lol. What strain is that? what are you're current variable values? If you want answers gotta post info fatty.

PW
Title: Re: new fruits looks a bit small?
Post by: bigfatmouthj on December 06, 2009, 06:46:03 PM
they are liberty caps, BRF/Verm cakes, temps are steady at 73f and RH 98%.
maybe the source of the spores were shotty?
Title: Re: new fruits looks a bit small?
Post by: psilocybin warrior on December 06, 2009, 07:05:41 PM
Those in the pic look like cubes, dont look like libs to me, why on earth would you grow libs on BRF? If they are libs and you want bigger yeilds, use poo/straw, or make outdoor beds!!!!!

PW
Title: Re: new fruits looks a bit small?
Post by: moorhS on December 06, 2009, 07:15:11 PM
ya those are definitely not liberty caps........
Title: Re: new fruits looks a bit small?
Post by: malabar on December 06, 2009, 07:17:46 PM
  Those look like B+ to me,........
       :ph34r:
Title: Re: new fruits looks a bit small?
Post by: bigfatmouthj on December 06, 2009, 07:26:14 PM
Ah yes they are B+...have my jar info mixed up with roomies. ^_^
i have too many irons in the fire. yes im not marking the jars instead of
keeping a paper log of whats what. any advice on better fruiting? never used grains but would like to give it a try.
Title: Re: new fruits looks a bit small?
Post by: psilocybin warrior on December 06, 2009, 07:31:27 PM
Good eye Malabar, cake looks a bit dry, give it a good ol dunk n roll. Want better flushes? give casings a try.

PW
Title: Re: new fruits looks a bit small?
Post by: malabar on December 06, 2009, 07:34:01 PM
  Big,
    Get a few grows down and step up to casing.  Your numbers will increase 6x.
  Also, grains are so much easier, provide more nutrients, have more repeated flushes and IMO larger fruits as well.  But, you have to judge when you feel you are ready to move on to a new adventure.
  But, for your 1st time out, you didn't do so bad.  It's still early.  You may be surprised at the results.
  Congrats and GL.
     ~Malabar    :mellow:
Title: Re: new fruits looks a bit small?
Post by: malabar on December 06, 2009, 07:36:29 PM
  Thx PW,......  Like you buddy, some of us have been on this old horse long enough to spot them a mile away!  lol    ^_^
    :ph34r:
Title: Re: new fruits looks a bit small?
Post by: bigfatmouthj on December 07, 2009, 03:56:37 AM
So dunk and roll between flushes it is. i noticed the cakes did look a bit dry, RH is 98% and using the tropic air system. but they look like they need a little bit more TLC. any suggestions on my 1st grains when i switch? im leaning towards the popcorn/millet.
Title: Re: new fruits looks a bit small?
Post by: dub504 on December 07, 2009, 04:28:30 AM
WBS is a good one.
Title: Re: new fruits looks a bit small?
Post by: bigfatmouthj on December 07, 2009, 05:03:13 AM
I also wanted to ask the pro's about the different grain options. ive seen most of you talk about popcorn/rye/millet. what are your thoughts on quinoa or wheatgerm? i am an avid health nut and have been going over a few grain options as far as nutrients and there are many! im also looking at them from a human nutrient intake perspective, which is why i ask about the substrate options for growing.
any ideas?
Title: Re: new fruits looks a bit small?
Post by: malabar on December 07, 2009, 07:37:30 AM
Big,
  I typically work with Brn Rice, Oats, Rye, or a combination of any of those w/Millet.  Quinoa, Wheatgerm, like Barley or Millet are light grains that I would or might only consider as an "additive", to either speed up colonization or "enhance" the nutrient base.
  I do at times colonize Millet alone, but primarily for the purpose of g2g transfers.
  Thus, I would suggest the "heavier" grains listed above.
I hope this helps you in your decision.
   ~Malabar    :mellow:
Title: Re: new fruits looks a bit small?
Post by: shroomzer on December 07, 2009, 03:33:09 PM
LOL BIG .. I'd be keeping better notes if you have more than one person growing in one house!  But that's just me, I wouldn't wanna eat something strange =/ ...
Title: Re: new fruits looks a bit small?
Post by: bigfatmouthj on December 08, 2009, 08:21:58 PM
a few of the cakes are still not showing pins yet, i gave them a good rinse and roll in the verm. how long until i can label them "duds" and move them to the compost?
Title: Re: new fruits looks a bit small?
Post by: malabar on December 08, 2009, 08:38:16 PM
Big,
  Now is the time to roll out that pkg of "patience" .  I would advise you to let them run for a couple of weeks, since cakes seem to perform on their on little schedule.    :rolleyes:
  If they show full colonization, as an option you can always consider this the opportunity to "crumble and case".   Something that will greatly step your game up as well!
  ~Malabar     :mellow:
Title: Re: new fruits looks a bit small?
Post by: bigfatmouthj on December 08, 2009, 08:48:23 PM
Hmm..i think i might try the "crumble and case" Malabar.
I have 10-15 extra cakes to experiment with. must go read up
on this idea you have suggested. thanks again Malabar  -_-
Title: Re: new fruits looks a bit small?
Post by: malabar on December 08, 2009, 08:55:57 PM
  Big,
  No problema.   I hope your grows continue to progress,.....   
I am impressed with your proactive approach of staging.  Having various "stages of growth is important, to maintain a constant grow, rather than waiting or trying to "catch up.
   Leaving "gaps" in the stages of growing have been disappointing to some, when they could have had fruits but didn't since they had to wait,....
  GL.
   ~Malabar    :mellow:
Title: Re: new fruits looks a bit small?
Post by: shroomzer on December 09, 2009, 05:47:56 AM
Indeed Malabar!  Although my production is not consistant, I have a nice 'supply' so I know when to get 'em growin' again ;)  Thanks to all my friends who prefer 'herb's' to shrooms, I don't have to grow excessive amounts to share (not that I wouldn't)!!
Title: Re: new fruits looks a bit small?
Post by: bigfatmouthj on December 09, 2009, 09:46:31 AM
so does it take the crubled cakes more time to re-organize after they are crumbled? what do you suggest as a bedding/cover? i just got a kick ass dehydrator for $20! life is sweet! speaking of...wondering about mixing up a flavored spray to mist them with before dehydrating them and maybe cutting back on the ick taste? just a thought though. ^_^
Title: Re: new fruits looks a bit small?
Post by: malabar on December 09, 2009, 10:23:51 AM
Big,
  Provided the cakes, or substrate is colonized and healthy, when you case after crumbling, it should only be a matter of 3 - 5 days ( a brief incubation period, covered in the dark ), before seeing the initial signs.  Once the mycelium is visible to the surface of the casing, it's a nice "deep" mist and off to the FC.
  Pins will generally appear in approximately 8 - 10 days, if conditions are correct and stable.
  As a casing material, I consistently use a 50/50 blend of Sphagnum peat moss / vermiculite.
  Congrats on the dehydrator!  Sweet deal,......     -_-
As for that flavoring spray........   I would be likely to vote against it.  Or at least wait until you are ready to consume them.  I'm not sure what it may do to the dehydrator, or the effect on drying may be.
  I always kind of enjoyed the flavor myself,.....    :rolleyes:
   GL.
     ~Malabar    :mellow:
Title: Re: new fruits looks a bit small?
Post by: dub504 on December 09, 2009, 01:59:16 PM
Just make sure the dehydrator doesn't get above 100 otherwise that grow will be worthless. Also if you hate the taste you could make a tea, chocolates, or honey. Here's some recipes http://forums.mycotopia.net/feasts-food-drink-tea-mushroom-dosing-magic-extracts/ (http://forums.mycotopia.net/feasts-food-drink-tea-mushroom-dosing-magic-extracts/)
Title: Re: new fruits looks a bit small?
Post by: bigfatmouthj on December 09, 2009, 08:01:14 PM
So Malabar...the popcorn/millet mix, what are the steps? i thought i saw that you had a posting on here but couldnt find it. i think my next go will be over the weekend and i want to get stocked up with what i will need.  it will be my 1st try at the non-cake method.  -_-
Title: Re: new fruits looks a bit small?
Post by: dub504 on December 09, 2009, 08:12:57 PM
I don't think malabar really uses popcorn that often. Maybe just try popcorn or millet alone first.
You could go 50/50. Steps for popcorn are here http://www.shroomery.org/9035/Popcorn-Tek-w-pics (http://www.shroomery.org/9035/Popcorn-Tek-w-pics) You'll want to prepare the millet separately. Depending on where you get your millet. It will have the hull or will be hulled. I prefer w/ the hull. I soak it overnight, drain, into jars and pressure cook...
Title: Re: new fruits looks a bit small?
Post by: bigfatmouthj on December 09, 2009, 08:17:58 PM
Ah thank you Dub. My pal uses a simple simmer pot for 2 hrs on his
jars and says its does the job. what do you think? also, will using plain popcorn alone have enough nutrients? as far as when casing? or is this why it is a good idea to use the light grains as an additive?
Title: Re: new fruits looks a bit small?
Post by: MT on December 09, 2009, 08:45:43 PM
If you are going to use grain you have to pressure cook it. The simmer pot only works with BRF cakes. As for grain mixtures, I have been using WBS with outstanding results so far.
Title: Re: new fruits looks a bit small?
Post by: moorhS on December 09, 2009, 11:04:10 PM
k wish I would of had this glossary along time ago. . . .
                      Shroom Slang :)
http://www.shroomery.org/5122/The-Shroomery-Mushroom-Glossary (http://www.shroomery.org/5122/The-Shroomery-Mushroom-Glossary)
Title: Re: new fruits looks a bit small?
Post by: dub504 on December 10, 2009, 02:46:01 AM
Yep, gotta pressure cook all grains. Popcorn is fine on it's own.
Title: Re: new fruits looks a bit small?
Post by: bigfatmouthj on December 10, 2009, 12:27:49 PM
Dub..if i do not have a PC to clean the casing material for the top of the cake crumbles is there any way that the boiling pot method will work properly? or maybe bake it? also if i wanted to use a jar or 2 that are 80% colonized will they be ok or should i let them fully colonize?
Title: Re: new fruits looks a bit small?
Post by: malabar on December 10, 2009, 12:34:58 PM
Big,
  You need the PC to prepare your grains.  Many prepare their casing in the microwave. 
  I think microwaving on high for up to 12 minutes has been the process,...  I am sure you want to achieve at lease 180 degrees for at least 8 - 10 minutes for a pasteurization of your casing.
  Dub is probably well versed in this area,.  I PC everything myself,.....
    ~Malabar    :mellow:
Title: Re: new fruits looks a bit small?
Post by: dub504 on December 10, 2009, 12:37:30 PM
Fully colonize your substrate, always! Casing doesn't have to be sterile, in fact it's better if it's pasteurized. You can prepare casing in your microwave... http://www.shroomery.org/5105/Casing (http://www.shroomery.org/5105/Casing)

Malabar, were on the same wavelength. Typing simultaneously.
Title: Re: new fruits looks a bit small?
Post by: bigfatmouthj on December 10, 2009, 01:19:20 PM
so a few of my cakes in the FC have white fuzz mold and smell a bit like vinager. can they be saved or are they wrecked?
Title: Re: new fruits looks a bit small?
Post by: malabar on December 10, 2009, 01:54:37 PM
Big,
  Sorry to hear this latest report.  I have always followed the rule that your grow shouldn't smell like anything other than grains or fresh shrooms, ( since you are vegan you know the smell ). 
  I would seriously be thinking of isolation procedures, if you are unsure of where they are heading.  "Bad news travels Fast!"   And contams communicate.
  Not knowing the region that you live, I don't know if it feasible for you to go ahead and "recycle" them outdoors to a compost bed or loamy soil.  Somewhere nature can look over them and perhaps provide healing to show fruits.
   ~Malabar     :mellow:
Title: Re: new fruits looks a bit small?
Post by: shroomzer on December 10, 2009, 07:38:49 PM
I don't trust any smell other than the fresh shroom smell.  I have never proceeded with anything that I am not sure of.   I would toss them, but thats me.  Maybe do what Malabar says and 'isolate' them.
Title: Re: new fruits looks a bit small?
Post by: fattrout on December 10, 2009, 08:14:18 PM
hey there big, yeah you better toss that jar. i follow that old rule if it smells bad don't eat it!!! sorry  -_-
Title: Re: new fruits looks a bit small?
Post by: bigfatmouthj on December 12, 2009, 07:54:46 AM
So ive just cased the 8 cakes, after closer inspection i found out it was the water under the lava rock that was smelling a bit. the tray weighed almost 4lbs and the cakes are now sleeping in a toasty 80F dark spot. after crumbling the cakes in the bag i was hit with a wonderful fresh mushi smell! very excited to see the results after about a week. -_-
Title: Re: new fruits looks a bit small?
Post by: malabar on December 12, 2009, 09:21:00 AM
Big,
   Sounds like you are on your way!  Good show so far.  However, I would suggest removing that standing water under the lava rocks.  The rocks are much like hydroton, and will absorb their limit of water, then release the moisture to the atmosphere of the FC in the form of humidity.
  And if you can smell the water, that is also an indicator that the water is stagnating and possibly developing bacteria that you don't want to introduce to your little community.
  Also, if you can bring your temperatures down just a bit, ( the mid 70s F ) you'll have a greater control over the risk of contamination as well as promoting your fruiting.
  ~Malabar    :mellow:
Title: Re: new fruits looks a bit small?
Post by: fattrout on December 13, 2009, 06:22:22 AM
hey big, on that smelly water. add 3 or 4 OZs of hydrogen peroxide to the water, that should fix it.. all in all sounds like you will be enjoying the fruits of your labor soon.... :mellow:
Title: Re: new fruits looks a bit small?
Post by: bigfatmouthj on December 13, 2009, 11:08:04 AM
the fruits were good. mild but satisfying. as a precaution and for good measure, i think i will be sanitizing my FC between flushes as ive noticed small dark spores on the glass where the tropic air hose is expelling the humidity. just put the cakes in a cool bath for a few hrs and on to the 2nd flush. i can notice a difference in the shrinking of the cakes from the sprouts extracting the nutients. very interesting :mellow:
Title: Re: new fruits looks a bit small?
Post by: fattrout on December 13, 2009, 11:39:33 AM
big, i don't think you have to completely clean after every flush. just wipe it down with some alcohol... -_-  i do a complete cleaning, of my FCs every 3 month. with no problems...
i'm happy to hear you enjoyed your fruits.. you say they are mild, how much did you eat?  :ph34r:
Title: Re: new fruits looks a bit small?
Post by: bigfatmouthj on December 13, 2009, 05:41:42 PM
only 3 gms but they were a bit small so i wasnt expecting a big
punch. maybe it was the strain(B+). star gazers and creepers are on the way
though. -_-
Title: Re: new fruits looks a bit small?
Post by: fattrout on December 13, 2009, 06:03:00 PM
cool!!!! :mellow:
Title: Re: new fruits looks a bit small?
Post by: ImAFungi on December 14, 2009, 03:07:07 PM
I thought the smaller the size of the mushroom the more potent it was? I've read that aborts are more potent gram for gram. Is that just with aborts?

             -ImAFungi
Title: Re: new fruits looks a bit small?
Post by: MT on December 14, 2009, 04:42:05 PM
I don't notice a significant difference between aborts or stems or caps. I believe for the most part it's all the same.
Title: Re: new fruits looks a bit small?
Post by: malabar on December 14, 2009, 04:49:16 PM
  I concur with MT,.... 
  They are all the same for me.   Though if you manage to harvest the fruits just prior to the breaking of the veil, they Do   contain a slightly larger percentage of psilocibin/psilocin, than after the breaking of the veil.  But, not significant enough that you will notice a difference.
   ~Malabar    :mellow:
Title: Re: new fruits looks a bit small?
Post by: ImAFungi on December 14, 2009, 05:51:10 PM
oh okay, i just read it on some forum but wasn't really sure about it. thanks for properly informing me good sirs. :mellow:

            -ImAFungi
Title: Re: new fruits looks a bit small?
Post by: bigfatmouthj on December 15, 2009, 09:17:44 PM
Trials,trials,trials!

so the cakes i cased a few days ago were ready for the FC, after about half the day the FC started smelling like bread?? hope its just the warm Vermiculite and not some unwanted nusance. argh!
Title: Re: new fruits looks a bit small?
Post by: malabar on December 15, 2009, 09:32:24 PM
Big,
  What did you do about that "standing" water you had in the FC?
A mild "sweet" bread smell isn't too far off base.  I have witnessed it in the past, but if it is a " molded " bread smell, you may want to smell each casing individually to identify and isolate it.
  The only smell I have had from vermiculite has been a "garden" scent, other than when it's new and dry.  Then it may smell like dust.
    ~Malabar    :mellow:
Title: Re: new fruits looks a bit small?
Post by: bigfatmouthj on December 16, 2009, 09:33:27 AM
yes its a mild sweet bread smell, no more standing water at all in the FC, the 8 cakes were crumbled and now sleep in a foil pan, could be the moist verm maybe? the top of the verm bed had random thick white fuzz patches..but im guessing its the network poping through?
Title: Re: new fruits looks a bit small?
Post by: malabar on December 16, 2009, 11:44:08 AM
Big,
  You are absolutely right about the " patches " peeking through.  I would suggest you give them another day incubating, then patch those areas and then off to the FC.  You're on auto-cruise for sure then.....  About 8 days to "Fruit City" !
  I'm still not getting where the smell derives from, but if all of the casings have the same aroma, you may be right about your vermiculite.
  ~Malabar    :mellow:
Title: Re: new fruits looks a bit small?
Post by: bigfatmouthj on December 28, 2009, 06:48:40 AM
So after casing the cakes on the 15th (over 13 days ago)
they have been in the FC since and have no signs of pins or further top growth. only random white patches. temps are 68-72F and humidity is at 97%. FC still smells ok, no foul oders.
whats the time frame for these buggers before i should donate them to the compost? Maybe put them back into warm&dark? at a loss with the batch. :huh:
Title: Re: new fruits looks a bit small?
Post by: moorhS on December 28, 2009, 08:21:30 AM
put my casing of amazonians in 50/50peat verm with some oyster and lime, started seeing pinning on the 23rd... u giving them enough light to initiate pinning?? other than that good luck. . . .
Title: Re: new fruits looks a bit small?
Post by: psilocybin warrior on December 28, 2009, 09:10:56 AM
How loose is your casing material? Could just be a slow strain, new growth is good! Patch up the new white spots with casing material and carry on with the proper fruiting methods. How long did you let the casing colonize?

PW
Title: Re: new fruits looks a bit small?
Post by: bigfatmouthj on December 28, 2009, 10:01:14 AM
i colonized the jars(verm/brf) to 100$ then crumbled them and they sat and stewed for about 4 days. the top of the tray had a nice fuzz across the top but now its gone. they might just be slow i guess. dont want them to get too dry in the meantime. they are not blue at all so i guess thats a plus.
Title: Re: new fruits looks a bit small?
Post by: malabar on December 28, 2009, 11:43:00 AM
Big,
  Keep them moist and be sure they are getting enough FAE.
    Malabar    :mellow:
Title: Re: new fruits looks a bit small?
Post by: bigfatmouthj on December 29, 2009, 10:59:18 AM
Ah well...after further inspection i discovered the pans of casings had lime green mold under the verm layer. so they are now resting in their new home, the compost pile. (sigh)
Title: Re: new fruits looks a bit small?
Post by: malabar on December 29, 2009, 12:03:33 PM
Big,
  Sorry to hear this,......  But cheer up.  You get to take this exam again!   And, the last results Won't affect your final grade!    :rolleyes:
  You will have better results this time. 
It sounds as though they may not have been getting enough air through your casing layer, and perhaps the temps were a bit higher than you might have liked in your FC?   Remember not to pack the casing on,....  drop it on and shake it around to cover the surface.  This way it breaths well.
  If that compose pile is in a good location, nature might correct that molding issue and show you a few fruits anyway.
    ~Malabar     :mellow:
Title: Re: new fruits looks a bit small?
Post by: fattrout on December 29, 2009, 07:39:18 PM
yeah sorry to hear of your loss.. but keep working on it, you will get it.. :ph34r: trust me i have sent my share to the compost pile.... ^_^ 
Title: Re: new fruits looks a bit small?
Post by: coyoteyogi on December 30, 2009, 03:30:22 AM
We all send our share to the compost pile. I think of it as my offering to the gods of mycelium. Good luck with your next attempt. In time, with persistence you will get the results you've been hoping for. I've been having great luck with TAK mountain from Ralphsters.